My opinion is confirmed every morning when I wake up and read the emails and skypes from my Danish contacts. Not only have the Danes retained their sanity in the face of the multicultural onslaught, but they are actually allowed to express their non-PC ideas publicly, even in the mainstream media.
The translations from Denmark are so refreshing that they brighten up what would otherwise be an unremitting picture of gloom and disaster. Here’s the latest voice of sanity, coming from the vice prime minister of Denmark, as reported in Ekstra Bladet and translated by our Danish correspondent TB:
Lene Espersen: Militant Muslims threaten Danish values- - - - - - - - -
The Muslim threat against our society is more serious than the threat of climate change — vice prime minister Lene Espersen (Conservatives)If you walk around thinking that the biggest threat of today against your existence is the environment, which threatens to flood your life in the coming decades, then think again.
The biggest threat against Denmark and Danish values is Islamic. That is what Lene Espersen, Leader of the conservatives and vice prime minister, states in a tone which one normally only hears from the Danish People’s Party.
“The biggest threat against us comes from Muslim militant extremism,” the minister states to Politiken.
Watch Pakistani TV
Lene Espersen is happy that many immigrants participate in the labor market — but that does not solve the problem, she states.
“The problem is that if those in the labor market are not part of Danish society anyway, then it does not work. They go to work and earn their own money but they live in a parallel society where they sit and watch Arabic and Pakistani TV when they come home and thus are not part of Danish society,” Lene Espersen says.
Tougher demands
She sees a strengthening of the politics of cultural values as the way out of what she calls a growing problem.
“We want to be tougher in our demands. We have to appeal to those who have problems seeing the wisdom in our model of society. There should not just be a stick, but also a carrot,” she says to Politiken.
What do you think: Does Denmark have a problem? And is the Lene Espersen’s proposal the right solution?
* Before you jump all over me: yes, I agree that Slovenia, Italy, the Czech Republic, and Switzerland are at least partial exceptions to the rule. But, generally speaking, the Western world has gone insane. Denmark prominently and inexplicably enjoys an immunity to this peculiar multicultural disease.
30 comments:
Hi Baron,
This comment is surprising because:
(a) it was said at all;
(b) it was said by a senior government minister;
(c) it was reported in a mainstream newspaper;
I would add, contentiously perhaps, that it is even more rare coming from a woman. I would be interested to hear Dymphna's view on this point!
Sadly, its significance is greatly reduced by the hazy superficiality of the measures Ms. Espersen recommends. What is the substance an "appeal to those who have problems seeing the wisdom in our model of society". What results will "strengthening of the politics of cultural values" deliver?
Best wishes,
Hal
Hal --
Yes, that's part of the issue for the West -- a collective delusion that there is a nice, friendly, culturally sophisticated way out of this problem.
There isn't. Any conceivable solution will involve a lot of ugliness.
That's why everything always seems to come back to some version of what might be called the "Jønke solution".
I'm still hoping for some other way, but I'm not optimistic.
One of the many factors that led up to this current crisis has been small-c conservative parties like the one Ms. Espersen belongs to who believe in something called 'the free movement of labour'. Centre-right parties acquiescent to the left-liberal agenda act as a kind of decoy in this way. They begin by promoting immigration based on spurious economic justifications and then when their core conservative base starts to become a dwindling minority they insist they must pursue more 'moderate' positions to attract new voters. Or as is the case with Ms. Espersen they see that they have created a real problem but think that alien immigrants can be assimilated by way of economic incentives.
It belongs to the story that Naser Khader, who declared our struggle with Islamism a "Third world war", has just been appointed spokesman for foreign affairs and integration of her party.
Good move :)
@Free Hal
"Sadly, its significance is greatly reduced by the hazy superficiality of the measures Ms. Espersen recommends. What is the substance an "appeal to those who have problems seeing the wisdom in our model of society". What results will "strengthening of the politics of cultural values" deliver?"
The article does not go into details about it. But the statements from LE came when presenting The Conservative's new integrtion politics which included many initiatives to strenghten democracy, freedom of speech, education in public schools etc. etc. etc.
The important fact here is that she openly recognize the problem. And how serious it is.
Anyway. I tend to agree with Baron. There will be no nice way out of this. Good thing is though that it is getting obvious for everybody (with a brain) in DK where we are heading.
Having in my lifetime seen the profound changes that have taken place in terms of ideology, including PC,Multi-Cult and the general destruction of western culture and civilisation led, by these same people Liberals, Conservatives and Socialists. I have no doubt that they think they have gone to far. The normal people could put up with this as long as it did not effect them. Now it is and they do not like it. It the ruling elite cannot stop the rot, there will be civil war all over europe. This is not a call to arms but a prediction. Islam is not compatible with western civilisation full .
the danish konservative party deserves a sertian respect. because they along with "venstre" and "danish people party" maneged to stop, almost complitly the muslim immigration to denmark.
at list for the last 8 years.
that is somthing no other goverment in western europe maneged to do, as far as i now.
as for Naser Khader, his parties(he swicht parties 3 times) were aginst!, the goverment in the last 3 elections, and for muslim immigration.
and he took some voters form the goverment.
so he was actualy a muslim dubel agent, that was very very close to preventing this goverment.
thay got 90 seats out of 180, last election, 1 seat less and they would have lost there magorety.
Like many other things, its going to be a very close run.
One the one side muslims are breeding&invading europe and getting ever more self-confident.
One the other side there are ever videning cracks in the PC control over european politics , and in Denmark its no joke anymore that Holger Danske has opened one eye.
So, whats going to happen first?
Are the muslims going to become a real political power capable of deciding any election ,or are they going to become something that no respectable leader would want to owe his majority to ?
In Israel it seems to be going that way.
We used to say here about some former leftwing governmennts , that "they were sitting on their arab votes" , and that was more or less their downfall. The average Israeli citizen does NOT want any more governmets of this description.
What might save europe would be , if a similar de-legitimation process would happen to those parties that go for the muslim vote.
This might drive the muslioms to develop their own political parties , which ofcourse, is exactly what we want them to do...
Cultural Enrichment in Portugal
«5 men of Romanian origin were arrested when they were having lunch in a restaurant in Bordeira, municipality of Faro, they are suspected of perpretating violent assaults on English and Dutch people in their houses in Algarve, since May 2006.
The 5 men are accused of robbery in Faro, Loulé and Olhão, between May 2006 and last Monday, said the GNR (Republican National Guard). The robberies were all done using psychological and physical aggression, beatings, kidnappings, and other kinds of torture so the victims would give them the security codes of their ATMcards.
The assaulted victims are all foreigners - English and Dutch - who lived in isolated houses, a characteristic for selection criteria by the criminals to carry out the crimes.
During the assaults some men were watching the victims while others would take their money from their bank accounts trough ATMs. When the security codes were wrong, the assaulters attacked the victims with more violence until they got the right codes, said the same source.
The last assaults were perpretated in Moncarapacho and Caliços where the Police was able to identify the suspects who were arrested in Faro.»
http://diario.iol.pt/noticia.html?id=768517&div_id=4071
I don't trust Naser Khader for a moment. He's a trojan horse masking as moderate muslim. He will betray the danes once he deem the time appropriate.
Of course Lene Espersen got balls, and the statement is a clear message to both the Danish voters and is on the other hand a political imitative to gain voters from Pia Kjærsgård an her parti Dansk Folkeparti (DF) there is a threat to the Liberal-conservative government in Denmark.
Anyway, its a good proposition and the timing is perfect in relation to the fraudulent Iraqis and the rising problems with the badly integrated Arabs who is causing a lot of trouble everywhere in the country.
Denmark prominently and inexplicably enjoys an immunity to this peculiar multicultural disease.
Denmark's stance against Islam, and repression in general, is not at all inexplicable. Pagans though they may have been, the Vikings were among some of the most adventurous people of their time.
New evidence shows that they may have portaged entire longboats into Russia and all the way to the Black Sea. Recent genetic findings indicate that Russians with red hair are almost unanimously of Danish descent to some degree.
This adventurous spirit was coupled with a determination to succeed that would see Viking invaders land on foreign shores and promptly burn their boats as an incentive not to fail. Almost universally feared, they roamed much of the European seaboard with impunity.
That sort of steadfast disposition makes it easy to see why Danes are famous for being "refreshingly candid" in their opinions. Nowhere near as pensive as their Swedish neighbors, Danish free thought manifests clearly in the vastly disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes this tiny nation has won. Over a dozen, all told, and in categories ranging from Physics, Chemistry and Medicine to Literature and the (now thoroughly tainted) Nobel Peace Prize. Few other countries can boast such a per capita haul in Oslo.
It is this bold forthrightness and emphasis upon knowledge that carries the day with respect to resisting Islam. Jyllands-Posten's Mohammad cartoons set the bar for the entire world community regarding free speech and the refusal to back down in the face of typical Muslim blackmail and coercion.
Being a first-generation American of Danish descent is a constant source of pride in this era of mind-numbing Political Correctness.
PP: Of course Lene Espersen got balls ...
I'd say ovaries, from the looks of her.
Re: cultural enrichment in Portugal.
Something tells me these people were not Romanian, but Romanian Gypsies. The Romanian of my acquaintance really really hate it when they are mixed up with Gypsies.
So, if the opinion of so many of you is this is going to end with major scale violence - How do you prepare?
Etruscan,
Sharp objects, heavy blunt objects, and food/water.
Wake Up to Reality.
Good question, Etruscan: Short answer-- get rid of the QUAINT notion that the government will protect you. Learn to protect yourself from the government, when (if still run by Leftists) it sides with the Muslims against you.
More extensive answer:
To understand a culture, one must understand where the people have come from and how they got there, as well as their history. When a culture has no knowledge of history, it only has the personal experience of its people.
Now concerning our culture, particularlly the "governing classes," they have NO experience of pain, suffering, subjegation, or suffering.
Thus, they have hubris run amok, and have piled error upon error. They won't do what is rational, even if it would be easy, because that would mean that they would have to admit they have been wrong in the past. After all, isn't Western Civilization invincible? Nothing bad has happened to them as a result of there actions, and they believe nothing ever will.
Islamists see all this, and are convinced that our "governing class" are the most stupid kafirs they have EVER faced-- and I think that they are right.
Zenster, why do you think that somehow we will be saved, if the government won't take action against blantant sedition? Even wolves know not to rush the kill when hunting moose-- and Islamists are smarter than wolves. Watch these two videos.
UK Shariah Chief Judge explains things
Instead, what does the government do? Threaten the native citizens!
Gov crackdown
We do not have a government that is patriotic. I am glad you are of Danish descent, Zenster.
For those who think we can deal with the Islamists without or before dealing with Leftists, what do you think of this statement?
"Peace is not patriotic. Peace is subversive, because peace anticipates a very different world than the one in which we live-- a world where the U.S. would have no place. U.S. Patriotism is inseparable from imperial warfare and white supremacy."
--Professor Nicholas De Genova at a Columbia U. teach-in. And most other professors were concerned that he said too much of what they really believed!
Two other questions--
1)Have you studied what the 'anti-war' Left said and did during the Iraq war? And why do you think they said and did what they said?
2)What do you think the Islamists have learned from the 'anti-war' [anti-West] Left during the past 8 years? (They have closely studied EVERYTHING).
If the war has already been lost, it was lost over the War in Iraq (politically). If we don't understand the war in Iraq (politically), we will NOT win the fight with Islam.
More to the point, I think the key problems were that Bush never understood how treasonous the Left is, and let the treason get out of hand. Read chapter 6 of the West's Last Chance, by Tony Blankley. It is amazing what the West would have done a few decades ago (reading it can help you get out of the present time-warp).
Oriana Fallaci was (and is) right when she said in The Force of Reason, that this war was not about terrorism, but about Islamic Immigration --"Al-HIjra"
My contention is that whatever you think about the Left, they MUST be defeated and removed from power based on the one issue of appeasement of Islamism -- because this issue is going to swallow up all other issues if the Leftists are not removed from power. The power base is in the courts, the media, academia, and the bureaucracy. Leftism will not be stopped unless we deal with these areas.
Robin Shadowes said.I don't trust Naser Khader for a moment. He's a trojan horse masking as moderate muslim.
Neither do I. And even if there were truly moderate Muslims, and could be trusted, all they they can do is to give the impression that their efforts will stop the fundamentalist Jihadic agenda of Islam. There is no evidence whatever of this ever happening. Thus this prevents us from deploying the only weapon that works with the Jihad. Removal.
Will this weapon also hurt the few genuinely moderate Muslims? Yes, but not physically. As there is no way to detect a moderate Muslim from a genuine Muslim, measures have to apply to all Muslims in the West.
The Stealth Jihad of Hijra- Muslim Immigration- Exposed
Sam Solomon and Elias Al Maqdisi have written a short book that breaks new ground in our understanding of Islam. The immigration of Muslims into non-Muslim societies, and their steady expansion of their power once they get there, leading toward the Islamization of the host society, is not just something that happens by itself. It is, like everything else about Islam, in accordance with the detailed instructions of Islamic law and the example of Muhammad. Specifically, Muslim immigration imitates Muhammad's actions when he and his followers immigrated to Medina.
Muslim immigration and subversion: the example of Muhammad
Nothing more to say really. The only way is to stop and reverse the flow, or else look forward to ever increasing "warming" in the summer, or through the year (presumably it is this warming that Gore was alluding to in an indirect manner).
"We want to be tougher in our demands. We have to appeal to those who have problems seeing the wisdom in our model of society. There should not just be a stick, but also a carrot,” she says to Politiken."
It's pathetic what weak gruel we have to make a meal of as push back. Sure, at least it's something relative to the denialists, but really!
What is Espersen's "stick"? Demanding that immigrants be law-abiding?
She's talking about presenting yet more carrots to people who in return beat us with a stick. THEY haven't felt a stick to their backsides, just silk pillows.
Feeding a Muslim carrots (basically paying voluntary jyzia) doesn't make him tame. It convinces him that you're a weak fool and he'll be snapping at your fingers next before swallowing you whole.
Has Denmark in fact stopped inward flow of Muslims? That's key. Then the next step is to apply the law strictly to deport as many Muslims as possible caught in criminal acts. The third is to stop and reverse all concessions to the practice of Islam including critically more mosque/enemy headquarters building. The fourth is to investigate Welfare immigrants thoroughly and put them to work, the more menial the better. Let them empty seniors' bedpans which is how the uneducated of all other races and faiths have got their start.
Lastly, instead of trying to provide Muslims with a welcoming atmosphere, boost Danish culture and give a cold shoulder to all Muslims but those who adopt western ways e.g. no more concessions at work to five times a day prayer. The Muslims who demand this are the worst of the lot since they can fulfill their prayer requirements without disrupting work by adjusting their own use of time, rising earlier etc. but they make a point of changing the infidels' behavior instead of their own BECAUSE THEY CAN.
Break out the piggy banks on desks. Fly the Danish flag in their faces (with the bonus that it has a cross on it). Those women who will not wash properly in hospitals cannot work there and cannot enter medical school if they plan on flouting hygiene. No special segregated swim times. They don't need to swim.
Any Muslim who dares object to normal Danish custom should get the fish eye communicating "Can you believe this rube? Can you believe how this religious fanatic expects people to care about his ignorant faith?"
Tear a page out of the Muslims' own playbook. Let what is still the majority population squeeze THEM in a thousand different ways, stopping sharia creep dead and instituting Danish creep. Make them feel as unwelcome as possible to see how many will return to Muslim lands. It doesn't need to be expressed as official hostility. It should be expressed as "We have been remiss in assimilating our immigrants, welcome to all things Danish all the time starting with an introduction to our love of hard work!"
Isn't this worth a concerted try before civil war breaks out? (Remember, if Muslims up their violence in response to being squeezed, it allows more legal deportations and teaching the rest that their shakedown days are over).
Natives awake! Reverse your slow slide into oblivion!
DP 111 and Laine,
Thank you DP111 for mentioning the Modern Day Trojan Horse book about Al-Hijra. I have read it, and it is exceeding excellent.
It points out how Malaysia, Indonesia, Central Asia (former Soviet Turkic states), and the Sahel (from Senegal to Somalia just south of the Sahara), and the coast of East Africa were NOT conquered by the sword, but by Al-Hijra. Thus, we must look at this war in terms of immigration, rather than just 'terrorism'.
It was not possible to conduct Al-Hijra in the West until the last few decades (1970's). But now that the West cannot be conquered by war, they are trying Al-Hijra, with astounding success.
If you read this book, you will see that we cannot assume that the Muslims will make the natives mad enough to drive them out. Aside from the woefully short Western attention span (and lack of strategy), Muslims will simply go for the concessions that will be least objectionable, and continue building up their numbers.
Now my research indicates that Denmark has only slowed Al-Hijra, not stopped it (the Muslims are still importing 37% of spouses, while only 24% of them are marrying Danes-- and I don't know how many of the Danes are Muslim converts.
Still, the EU is pumping Muslim migrants into Europe, so it is hard for a small country to stop it. Another impressive thing the Danes have done is NOT CRACKDOWN on the HA-- as governments would do in Sweden or the UK.
Your suggestions are all good, Laine. But the PC MC Leftists' bases are in the Bureaucracy, courts, and the educational system. If we don't drive them out of those areas, it is only a matter of time until people vote in Leftists 'for a change' -- that is what happened in the USA with Barack Hussein Obama.
The Patriots must think strategically to weaken the treasonous PC MC Leftist power bases in order to win this war.
P.S.-- Read my latest comment on the entry to the article "The Rage to Come" about the 'Camels' the Islamists have found to carry the West down the road to Shariah-- The West is too heavy for Human Islamists to carry down the road. Take away the 'Camels' and the West will stop moving past the "Milestones" on the Road to Shariah.
Another important Point about Defeating the Left:
Another important point-- Zenster once said that Mexican Immigration was softening the USA to the dangers of future Muslim Immigration.
I take this into the realm of culture, with the Western Cultural Revolution [1963-1979]. The problem is that the PC MC Leftists have torn down so much of traditional western culture that Western Natives are used to Western Culture being sold out. Thus, the resistance to Islamic demands has been seriously compromised.
In addition, people are so used to hearing Leftist attack the West --the 'anti-war'[Anti-West} 'Peace Movement'-- that they aren't nearly alarmed enough when the Muslims say the same thing.
Any strategy for victory MUST include regaining as much of the Traditional Western Culture as possible. If our strategy does not include this, the young people will accept Islamic demands and Western Cultural surrender as 'part of the fabric of Western Life' [Since they have never experienced anything else].
Hi Baron,
I hope you won’t mind my disappointment at your reply.
First, “Any conceivable solution will involve a lot of ugliness” is wrong – I’ve proposed one that doesn't. You may not agree with the concept but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist!
Second, the "Jønke solution" is bad for the following reasons:
(1) As you say, it involves a lot of ugliness.
(2) It will involve ugliness for the supposed beneficiaries. It’s a very Faustian pact. You substitute Jønke’s will for rule of law, in the naïve belief that Jønke wants what you want and won’t abuse his power. Jønke is not George Washington, and won’t retire to Mount Vernon once he has fought your war!
(3) Jønke will be superseded by someone worse. Revolution eats its children as it rolls into more violent waters. You will end up somewhere much worse than a few bikers’ high spirits.
(4) By abolishing non-arbitrary law, it abolishes key characteristics of western civilisation: freedom and trade. This is senseless because it kills western civilisation’s material advantage.
(5) You don’t know that Jønke will fight for you. A cynical warlord will find it cheaper to negotiate with Sharia enclaves, and convenient to keep them in place as a continuing threat against which he can offer “protection”. Some people, blinded by frustration, think warlords are above this.
Third, it bodes ill for your blog not to consider alternatives to Jønke. If we do nothing then, as you say, Jønke is the likely outcome. Query the relevance of a forum that doesn’t look for, and evaluate, alternatives.
Successful social change (e.g. the American Revolution) is usually preceded by a considered plan and a vision. Unsuccessful social change (e.g. the French Revolution) isn’t. You cannot overstate the role of a Founding Fathers group in such times. And this is what GoV could provide.
You’ve stated your aim of creating a Lindisfarne, for free exchange of ideas. Rather than the dubious pleasure of being able to look back in 20 years and say “I told you so!”. Your Lindisfarne goal requires the considered search for a solutions, rather than expressions of frustration and tacit acceptance of the violence to come.
The fact that no-one else is stepping up (see Lene Espersen) only heightens the need for GoV to do so!
Best wishes,
Hal
Hal --
I’m sorry; a more complete response would have been: “Any conceivable solution which has even a remote chance of actually being implemented will involve a lot of ugliness”.
Your alternative is preferable, but I see no sign that we’re moving in a direction where enough people would learn of it, study it, and start a movement to implement it. If that ever begins to happen, I will definitely celebrate it. And I do my part by publicizing it as much as this small blog allows.
What you say about Jønke is true. Unfortunately, at the moment it looks like the only choices we’re going to get will be between Jønke and sharia (with a possible third option of anarchy and chaos, i.e. the War of All Against All).
Once again, when I see better alternatives arising, ones that seem to have a chance of succeeding, I will celebrate them. And even if they don’t have much chance of succeeding, I will publicize them as much as this small blog allows.
Third, it bodes ill for your blog not to consider alternatives to Jønke.
Hal, have you really not been reading what I write here? I consider all kinds of alternatives, all the time!
From time to time I take a sober look at all of the scenarios and consider which ones are most likely. Then I write about my conclusions, which are my own ill-informed attempts to guess which possibilities are the most likely to eventuate. If I reach the conclusion that your proposals are unlikely to be realized, it’s not a judgment on their merits, just on the chances for their success.
I am interested in seeing more detailed plans for how you hope to achieve your goals. How to get from here — a fully PC multicultural welfare dystopia on the verge of total economic collapse — to a new society in which free men contract with one another to ensure their prosperity and security.
How do we get there from here? I need to see steps A, B, and C. You’ve shown me Z. What lies between?
At the moment you are engaging in the digital equivalent of standing on a box on Hyde Park Corner calling out to passers-by. How do you get from there to real political action?
Zenster often declares that “we” should expel all the Muslims, assassinate their leaders, and try our own seditious leftist leaders for treason. I like those ideas, too. Unfortunately, it’s more likely that Osama bin Laden will walk out of his cave, apologize, convert to Presbyterianism, and settle down in Boise to sell used cars.
One of the persistent and intransigent problems of these discussions is the issuance of prescriptive proposals about what “we” should do. As I have asked so many times before, who are “we”?
If “we” are the governments of the Western democracies, you can forget 99% of the ideas that are broached here. Ain’t gonna happen.
If “we” are the ordinary people of our various countries, roused to informed action by circumstances and united in our common sense of duty and purpose — ditto.
When I say “we”, I mean a very small collection of intelligent and reasonably well-educated people who have become aware of the crisis and seek some way to bring about change so as to keep our entire civilization and culture from being destroyed.
We are a tiny group, no more than a few thousand spread over the entire West. It’s possible that some of us may happen to become associated with a party or political group that gains power after the first wave of the coming catastrophe. If so, that’s good, and they may help stave off the worst.
But until then all we can do is organize and prepare. Collect and disseminate information, write and publish, recruit and form networks of like-minded people.
This is my position, which I have stated clearly in this space so many times that I’d say I feel like a broken record, except that those among my readers who are under 35 would have no idea what I mean.
OK, Hal — I’ve given you post space and a platform. We know what you would like to see happen — we know what final outcome you propose.
Now I’d like to see a real, detailed plan for getting there.
Hi Baron,
Thank you for your courteous reply. I wouldn’t have blamed you for ignoring my comment!
Baron: “Your alternative is preferable, but I see no sign that we’re moving in a direction where enough people would learn of it, study it, and start a movement to implement it.”
I have to agree. I’m encouraged that my system has a low critical mass. A relatively small group, living successfully under it, will attract more.
I hope you won’t think me snide for saying that I honestly don’t recall the alternatives you’ve discussed! Maybe I’m misreading. The accent seems, understandably, to be on “It’s This Bad!” items.
Anyway, how I think my plan could get there from here. I want to stay brief enough to comply with Dymphna’s 4-comment rule, which I think is a good one.
Let’s say in 20 years European states go bust and can’t pay for welfare or anything else.
The power vacuum elevates warlords and petty dictators.
Ordinary people seek protection from warlords. The brutes rise.
Investment flees, and trade collapses. Shortages.
Islamic enclaves get autonomy.
Ethnic hatred, long repressed by PC orthodoxy, explodes.
Broken welfare promises, infantilised European populations, and economic collapse fuel the anger further.
Warlords encourage and feed off the hatred.
(We probably agree so far!)
Meanwhile, a few thousand sign up to the legal Pact system I propose.
The Pact system makes signatories liable to compensation and forced labour for crimes, and a civil system enforces contracts.
A condition of membership is payment to an effective enforcement mechanism – police and courts, and a subscription to a defence contractor. Anyone with a criminal record is ineligible to join without indemnity insurance.
Members are able to live safely together, and to trade using gold certificates as a currency.
Members of the Pact system, free from taxation and pointless regulation, quickly become richer than outsiders under the warlords.
Outsiders see this and apply to join. It’s unfamiliar, but it works, and anything’s better than Bosnia-on-Thames.
The Pact arouses resentment from the warlords because they’re losing citizens to it. But it has more money and weapons, and can employ professional soldiers.
A warlord congress, including Islamic enclave warlords, meets and decides to strangle the Pact system at birth. But the warlords’ recruitment methods are coercive, like those of Highland Chiefs, and the Pact has advance notice.
The Pact lets the warlord force to gather before letting loose the heavy artillery it has rented from a former infantry regiment. It also sends in a fleet of armed drones hired from Poland.
Humiliated, the warlords raid a pacifist variation of the Pact system and kill its members. They film the atrocities over two days, allowing a few blinded children to survive to tell the tale.
--------------------------
The key is to have the legal code, and the enforcement mechanism, ready so that when the state system crashes, or gradually ceases to function, it can be taken up at short notice.
Best wishes,
Hal
Free Hal,
The problems with your suggestions, and there are many of them, as lined out in your Rollback article and afterwards, are:
1. It is actually just a regurgitation of theorizing of an anarcho-capitalistic utopia. It stays true to that but does not address the problems we are facing.
2. Your suggestions start with the collapse of the state. In fact, the collapse of the state is an axiom in your thinking and obviously something you wish to see.
3. In contradiction to any historical example you imagine this anarchy to be more prosperous, and somehow that the legal code would be strengthened. You even imagine it to be richer and with a blossoming stock market. Without the stabilizing hand of a state? Quite contrary to your wishes, I'd like to see a Pinochet or a Franco reinforcing the strength of the state and guaranteeing the order.
4. It's also strange that you should warn about the horrors of revolution and anarchy, since you are the one advocating it in its purest form, even though you describe it as the ideal order and prosperity.
5. One aspect of your "solution" is that we are morally obliged to accept Muslim enclaves in our midst. That we are not morally allowed to do anything offensively to deal with it, and only react defensively in case they attack us.
6. You even claim that any offensive means of this kind will necessarily lead to genocide (especially if its done by an "evil" state), and therefore no steps should be taken in this direction.
7. In fact, you say that you rather see European civilization vanish and white people perishing, if what it takes to save it is ethnic cleansing.
8. What you are completely disregarding in your idealized model is how power ultimately rests on the ability to apply organized violence. This is the role a functioning state provides, with its monopoly on violence, which creates peace, prosperity and a functioning legal code. However, you do admit in between the lines, how the principle of violence apply, and how your "Pact system" wouldn't stand a chance in a situation of anarchy against warlords.
I'm all in favour of peaceful and free solutions as far as it takes us -- so much better! My problem with your stance is how you categorically say no to measures that goes beyond that, and what is likely to be necessary to save ourselves. In fact, you rather see us perish than doing thing like that. Also your advocacy of a state-less society is as utopian as Communism.
Baron Bodissey: Zenster often declares that “we” should expel all the Muslims, assassinate their leaders, and try our own seditious leftist leaders for treason.
Baron, you have over-abbreviated my points and taken them out of order. My first priority is to make sure that the "real" jihadists suffer or die. These are Islam's starring players who operate under cover of pseudo-religious or state auspices and are most certainly not their ultimately dispensible cannon fodder.
The gist is that Muslims―be they big or small―are likely to abandon jihad only in extremis. Far better that several thousand Big Turbans™ take the fall than the more likely outcome of a Muslim holocaust. In either case, Muslims of any rank will need to experience sufficient pain or risk of death whereby jihad loses its luster. However probable or unrealistic this scenario may be, I continue to hold it out because few others―regardless of practicality―have any promise of averting, what promises to be, genocide on a heretofore unheard of scale. I must also reitierate that such genocide will be the fault of Islam and Islam alone.
What it will take to 'acuate' these concepts is much akin to such 'actuation' within the ummah. Regretfully or not, all too often it involves some form of pain and suffering. Dar al harb's survival requires that Western politicians be forced from their gated communities, armored limousines and private jets to such an extent whereby they and their families begin experiencing the discomfort―if not outright lethality―of those risks they fecklessly impose upon the electorate. If not, Politically Correct and Multiculturalist attitudes will prevail well beyond their expectable lifetime.
Examples abound of potential benefit curtailment for the elite. As in; Efforts to ensure federally elected politicians no longer enjoy the luxury of America's Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and, instead, must subsist upon ordinary Social Security benefits. Or, making sure these same politicians have no further access to private or military transport and, like the rest of us plebes, must rely upon hijack-prone civilian air carriers.
Once the predations of our Islamic enemy befall these vote-mongering whores and their spawn, then we might hope for change. Why else would there be such political opposition to targeted assassinations of jihad's aristocracy? Clearly, once such a campaign began, terrorists would fix their crosshairs on the backs of our politicians. While these political sluts may be happy to send America's sons and daughters overseas to a violent sandy death, in no way are the vast majority of them actually willing to die for their country. As Serge Trifcovic said:
The elite class, rootless, arrogant, cynically manipulative, has every intention of continuing to “fight” the war on terrorism without naming the enemy, without revealing his beliefs, without unmasking his intentions, without offending his accomplices, without expelling his fifth columnists, and without ever daring to win.
While America's political traitor elite may never answer for their treason in open court, it's still possible they may pay for heedlessly endangering our nation. New York has already felt Islam's wrath. Few more likely future targets exist than Washington D.C., especially during full legislative session. Losing so much of America's patrimony to a terrorist nuclear attack would grieve me far more than knowing our nation's treasonous vote whores had finally been paid in full for betraying our great country.
Zenster,
New York has already felt Islam's wrath.
And where has that taken them?
Next year NYC might be celebrating September 11 as an Islamic holiday.
And that gets us to the Barons actual question to you, which you avoided: who are the "we" that are going to do the things you talk about?
The example of New York shows us that there is no waking up of the people to the situation. Instead everybody's sound asleep -- sleep walking even deeper into the catastrophe, like hypnotized lemmings.
I have spent 7 years in the anti-jihad movement, and we have tried all sorts of things, and put hope in all sorts of things, to wake up the people. But it just won't happen. Only a major breakdown seems to be able to do it. Baron Bodissey, Fjordman, Lawrence Auster, Gerard Pince, etc., any serious analyst is coming to the same conclusion.
To quote Baron's question to you:
Zenster often declares that “we” should expel all the Muslims, assassinate their leaders, and try our own seditious leftist leaders for treason. I like those ideas, too. Unfortunately, it’s more likely that Osama bin Laden will walk out of his cave, apologize, convert to Presbyterianism, and settle down in Boise to sell used cars.
One of the persistent and intransigent problems of these discussions is the issuance of prescriptive proposals about what “we” should do. As I have asked so many times before, who are “we”?
The Baron continues:
If “we” are the governments of the Western democracies, you can forget 99% of the ideas that are broached here. Ain’t gonna happen.
If “we” are the ordinary people of our various countries, roused to informed action by circumstances and united in our common sense of duty and purpose — ditto.
As the Baron points out: a real plan has to go through concrete steps from A to Z. As he wrote to Hal: I need to see steps A, B, and C. You’ve shown me Z. What lies between?
In your case, Zenster, steps A, B, C is how to wake up either our governments or ordinary people to what sort of things that needs to be done. In case you have no idea of how to do that, it does not make a lot of sense in detailing steps X, Y, Z.
Your suggestions require large scale actions, i.e. from governments or something equally powerful. If we are not able to wake up our governments -- or wake up the people in general who can then wake up the governments -- it's just not gonna happen. I agree it feels good talking about what should have been done. But it ends up being nothing but therapy.
Conservative Swede: And that gets us to the Baron's actual question to you, which you avoided: who are the "we" that are going to do the things you talk about?.
I've already answered this question of yours before.
Those who intend to survive.
The example of New York shows us that there is no waking up of the people to the situation.
Your defeatist attitude is showing. One single nuclear terrorist attack could change all of that in a heartbeat. I despise the notion that such a monumental catastrophe will be required to awaken what General Yamamoto called the "sleeping tiger" of America. However, should such a time come, I still trust America's people to demonstrate the unity that made and makes this the great nation that it is.
I continue to hope that the MSM's outright treason will polarize more and more people. Likewise, I place great faith in blogs like Gates of Vienna to galvanize resistance amongst those who ply the Internet.
You exhibit a tendency to transfer your own nation's near hopeless self-abasement to Islam onto other far more robust cultures.
I agree it feels good talking about what should have been done. But it ends up being nothing but therapy.
Again, maybe all you do is blog about this issue, I cannot be sure. However, I actively engage people that I meet, literally, every time I step outside of my house. A quick conversation in a supermarket checkout line has seen people connect the dots and begin changing their opinion.
I WILL CONTINUE TO GO ABOUT FIGHTING ISLAM BY CHANGING ONE MIND AT A TIME.
Clearly, from how well received my Internet postings are, I am frequently changing far more than just one mind at a time.
One thing I absolutely refuse to do is give up on the American people and Western civilization at large. We have achieved so much and made such gigantic strides towards bettering this world that the actions of a small minority―be it Socialists or jihadist Muslims―must not be allowed to alter the course that humanity has plotted for itself.
While you may eagerly anticipate the collapse of Western civilization, I will go down fighting tooth and nail to preserve it. Nothing that anyone has posited―be it you, Free Hal or anyone else, save perhaps El Inglés―has much to show in terms of worth as a replacement for what we have today.
Your continued refusal to admit that Western civilization is worth saving only reinforces my determination to pen a new essay titled, "Embers in the Ash". It will deal with how European and American cultures can take steps to preserve or, at least, conserve aspects of modern culture that are worth saving from the ravening hoards of barbarians unleashed upon us by the traitor elite.
Zenster,
Those who intend to survive.
I'm sorry Zenster, but that is not a concrete plan; it's just an abstract hope. Your proposals require armed forces. The ones in control of our armed forces, and those with the consciousness for survival, are completely disjoint sets of people. So nothing will happen.
You are trying to abridge this by speaking to people you meet in the supermarket. So do I, but I think given the accelerating pace of the catastrophes of all kinds falling upon us, that this might be a tad too slow.
You seem to put your most hope in being hit by a nuclear attack (and it fails me how that idea is not defeatist). And I agree that this is a catastrophe with the potential of starting to shake our current belief system. Which is exactly what is required to have a turnaround. 911 was obviously not even close to be enough. But your biggest problem is that there quite probably won't be any nuclear attack. Read the Gerard Pince analysis that I linked above.
Clearly, from how well received my Internet postings are, I am frequently changing far more than just one mind at a time.
So the A, B and C of your plan is to talk to people you meet in the supermarket and to make comments at GoV, and you expect that to result in the American government engaging in "targeted assassinations of jihad's aristocracy"? Do you expect this to happen during the Obama Administration?
You exhibit a tendency to transfer your own nation's near hopeless self-abasement to Islam onto other far more robust cultures.
If you want to get at me personally, you should know better then trying to go after my country, which I hold in very low regard. However, I used to think Sweden was the worst, but when I see how NYC is about to celebrate 9/11 as an Islamic holiday, we are not even close to that perverted level of self-abasement. And your country is now governed by Barrack Hussein Obama, a fact that has never entered your presented calculations at any point. Instead you continue talking about your country as if that had never happened. But whenever was pretending that reality is not like it is, a good concrete plan for action?
Nothing that anyone has posited―be it you, Free Hal or anyone else, save perhaps El Inglés―has much to show in terms of worth as a replacement for what we have today.
Well, I wholeheartedly agree, at least when it comes to me and El Ingles (while Hal's paradise sounds absolutely lovely). I would also, like you, prefer to freeze time and keep everything in a happy 20th century bubble. But that's just not how I think it will happen.
I hope you do not base your optimism on "how well received [your] Internet postings are". You see, I think Baron Bodissey's Internet postings are received much more widely and well than yours, and he's asking you the very same question as I am: who are going to do all the things you talk about? So far your only answers has been: i) people you meet in the supermarket, ii) GoV readers who like your posts, iii) people who might be hit by a nuke.
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