In response, the newly-elected Majlis will discuss instituting an official death penalty for Iranian apostates from Islam. According to AKI:
Iran: Parliament to discuss death penalty for converts who leave Islam- - - - - - - - -
Tehran, 19 March (AKI) — In its first session since last week’s general elections, the new Iranian parliament is expected to discuss a law that will condemn to death anyone who decides to leave the Muslim faith and convert to other religions.
The parliament, also known as the Majlis, will debate the new law which has been presented by the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Under the proposed law, anyone who is born to Muslim parents and decides to convert to another faith, will face the death penalty.
Currently converts, particularly those who have decided to leave the Muslim faith for Evangelical churches, are arrested and then released after some years of detention.
The new legislation, which has caused concern in Iran and abroad, was proposed mainly because of fears of proselytising activities by Evangelical churches particularly through the use of satellite channels.
There has also been concern over fact that many young people in Iran have abandoned Islam because they’re tired of the many restrictions imposed by the faith.
According to unofficial sources, in the past five years, one million Iranians, particularly young people and women, have abandoned Islam and joined Evangelical churches.
This phenomenon has surprised even the missionaries who carry out their activities in secret in Iran.
An Evangelical priest and former Muslim in Iran told Adnkronos International (AKI) that the conversions were “interesting, enthusiastic but very dangerous”.
“The high number of conversions is the reason that the government has decided to make the repression of Christians official with this new law,” said the priest on condition of anonymity.
“Often we get to know about a new community that has been formed, after a lot of time, given that the people gather in homes to pray and often with rituals that they invent without any real spiritual guide,” he told AKI.
“We find ourselves facing what is more than a conversion to the Christian faith,” he said. “It’s a mass exodus from Islam.”
Hat tip: insubria.
37 comments:
It is an interesting development, one that my Persian friends had told me about a little while back.
I was also surprised last year in reading that so many muslims worldwide are converting to Christianity.
Of course, the only way the Mullahacracy can respond to this, is to be even more harsh than they have been.
I read this interesting piece this past summer. Glad I saved it.
"When he addresses Muslims, Sanneh cautions them to consider lessons learned by the medieval Christian church. Ally religion too closely to the state, and you open your faith to corruption and abuse of power. Christian experiments with church-state blending, whether in Geneva under Calvin, Britain under Cromwell, or Spain and Latin America under the Inquisition, may have worked for a time but inevitably provoked a backlash. In fundamentalist Iran, a similar backlash is already in motion. As one concerned Iranian intellectual told a visiting Harvard professor, "These young people may be lost to Islam forever. … They follow the conventions of Islamic dress and custom, because they are required to do so by law, but inside their hearts are hollow and cynical. We are losing an entire generation of unbelievers in our zeal to force conformity."
I feel nothing but joy for those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, but I fear for these same people who are living in these Muslim countries.
Generally, I am not a fan of proselytization. The Christian Identity people are living proof that even a religion based upon love, sacrifice, charity, and forgiveness can be corrupted.
But I despise Jihad Islam so much, I am glad for every thorn in its side. Having said that, I certainly hope the converts avoid not only the death penalty, but imprisonment as well. Let the Jihadis come after me instead. My favorite mathematical ratio is 1:144.
This is wonderful. But I'm reminded of that sad story of a few years ago, when an Iraqi Christian boy was challenged by some jihadis, and when he admitted being a Christian, they killed him. Does anyone know if the missionaries in Iran are counseling converts as to how to survive in their environment? Would it be okay for people to convert secretly? I'm not a Christian and don't know what's required, but it seems to me that people shouldn't have to martyr themselves by disclosing something that will get them killed or imprisoned. That saying about discretion being the better part of valor applies here, IMO.
I was also surprised last year in reading that so many muslims worldwide are converting to Christianity.
Which shows one essential ting:
Most Muslims are really very decent people :)
I heard that the hardest problem for the Persians is the problem of getting Bibles in Farsi (their language).
Stuff like this is why I keep saying Eurabia isn't "inevitable". Nothing i inevitable. I keep reading articles in the christian press about conversions from Islam in many european countries where there are no penalties in law for changing religion, vastly altering the equations.
Course I'd still deport most of them, given the chance, but at that point you have to start considering the danger new converts would be in if they were sent back to their country of origin so it gets tricky.
Anyway, this proves the thoughts I've been having: Islam is a weak faith. It relies on dominance and control to keep its adherents in line. Get a missionary into a muslim country, give him a chance to talk to people long enough and they'll be converting in droves. I know a few people object to proselytising but the alternative is letting Islam stay strong. I'd rather see these people converted to a genuine faith of love and tolerance than the false "peace" of Islam.
Wasn't Theran one of the first places where apostate Obama wanted to have "talks", if he gets elected?
That should make for an interesting encounter.
The only reason that the world is filled with Muslims is because of the death-to-apostates rule. Who, besides certified idiots, would willingly remain a slave to a primitive, vile, backward, sex-stultifying faux religion if they could exit without pain of death?
The naivety of those who want to deceive themselves is, as ever, amazing.
Many young Iranians want to leave the country and emigrate to the greener pastures in the west. "Converting" and becoming an oppressed Christian is ground for asylum in most European countries.
You connect the dots.
Can't you people see how conterproductive it is to publish this news in such a major blog?
Do you think "the mad mulahs" will not see this? It may very well put many Christian lives at risk.
That's why I am against this post.
More, the Persians were never muslims in their very spirit. If one is to analyse this people, one will notice their pride in their pre islamic past.
Not to mention that "the Persian Civilisation" has ever been a rival to Europe. It is a great one.
One should know also about the divide in Iran between the Turks (islamists) and the Persians, Lurs, Bactrians and all the other descendents of the "Median-Bactrian-Persian" nucleous. The last ones are much more non islamic.
You say one million are Christians, I say much more are post modernists in the light of European fashion and some are even Zoroastrian or some other pre islamic believer. I hope Persia to rebirth and Iran to fall. But it will not happen in the next five years.
Now go, go Americans, go bomb Iran fast so that all that is being achieved, all the anti-islamic sentiment, is cracked into ruins. If you bomb Iran, the Iranian people will unite again under islam, just like in 1979 and during the Iran-Iraq war.
We better think twice over hating Iran(ians) and Russia.
"Islam is a weak faith. It relies on dominance and control to keep its adherents in line. Get a missionary into a muslim country, give him a chance to talk to people long enough and they'll be converting in droves."
Archonix, do you really believe your own words? The Portuguese have civilised (convert to Christianity) the world. America, the indigenous tribes; Asia, South Japan, Western parts of India, The budhists in Indonesia, the people of Timor, even some Chinese; A great part of Africa. The Spaniards have done the same (Philipines, great part of America, etc.).
But, when Spaniards or Portuguese met the muslims, war was usually what followed. There are no records of Portuguese or Spaniard peoples civlising (convert to Christianity) muslims without ethnic cleansing. Why is that? Is that because islam is "a weak faith"? Sorry, I think that the biggest problem of ours against islam is that islam is such a stong faith.
Derailed Cluetrain,
though you are right, I think Iran demands a case-study. In Iran, there are a great anti Western sentiment since the reactions of the Europeans and the Americans to the events of the Iraq-Iran war, the Islamic Revolution and the events that preceeded it.
We acted like bastards. The Persians have all the legitimate right to hate us. They don't hate us for what we are (as I feel, 60% of the third worlders here does), they hate us for what we have done.
afonso henriques
The Persians I know, all of whom fled the Ayatollah's Iran, to this day want to blame America for the islamic revolution, and are quite upset about it. I remind them it was America's worst President in history, Jimmy Carter, that caused that disaster. Also, five years ago, when the re-invasion of Iraq began with "shock and awe," there were Iranian citizens painting bullseyes on their roofs, with messages that said "bomb here."
Most Iranians I've talked to, in person as well as on the net, don't want a U.S. invasion or military intervention, they want to take ownership of their own freedom, but with assistance. That assistance has been forthcoming for a few years now, with covert operations, and training of Iranian dissident groups. Which has prompted the Iranian government to come out with this following propaganda video.
Having lived in Iran before the revolution, I remember the widespread public anticipation of it, even within the circles of us Europeans. When we set off fireworks for New Year celebration, my dad would say: "I hope the Iranians don't take the noise as a sign the revolution has started."
The anticipation was there, the widespread rumors of how evil the Shah was, and a strong hope for a better future. Which was all in vain, of course, but who'd know that?
I saw the Shah twice, and much to my surprise, spontanious joy arose when he rode by. In an open limousine, amazingly. He was a good man, but on a real tough mission.
One of his main points back in '73, when he hiked the oil prices, was to motivate us to switch from oil to alternative sources, as oil would run out. However, the Western press just smeared him as greedy, and it was a lot easier to blame him for the 'outragious' price to be paid at the pump than to take his suggestion seriously.
That Carter put pressure on him to release political prisoners is a candidate for 'Crime of the Decade'. It lead to a year of ever-increasing violence, and we were fortunate to get out in time.
Afonso, I follow your logic of 'putting people at risk', and I think it's a mistake, fortunately.
I think the Iranian authorities have their hands full of this already. We're not putting anyone personally on the line, and actually largely quoting an *Iranian* news agency for this story. They have this info already.
Further, it's encouraging for all Christians out there - who may be reading GoV (EuropeNews at last stat had many Iranian readers) - that they're seeing this as a constructive way to get rid of the regime. A *million* conversions is quite a number, and if this is true and continues, the regime will be toast in perhaps five years.
This post is a drop in that bucket.
henrick
HAPPY NORUZ!
There are many views on the Shad, and it is often difficult for me to fully understand the different perspectives, as his enemies were those I would call my enemies, the Marxist-Islamists.
I do know from my friends, that the standard of living in Iran during the Shah was the highest in the region, and Iran was peaceful with it's neighbors, and had great relations with Israel.
Here are a few links on what was happening during the President Peanutz years.
Jimmy Carter's Illegal Demands On Shah.
Jimmah The Idiot Carter-Architect Of Our Terrorist Problems.
One million converts is good, another 70million would be even better.
pimf=Shah(not Shad)
no2liberals, a very happy Noruz to you, too :)
I remember the Iranians used to picnic, and they had a cute little habit of having a pad of freshly sprouted wheat as part of their Noruz ritual which they'd leave behind after their field trip. Funny to see all those little patches of green everywhere.
As for the Shah, I think the most convincing was to read "My Reply To History". Not that I'd expect him to incriminate himself in his own book - that's not the point - but something else was very striking in that book:
His immense interest in projects and statistics for his country. On the surface, that'd be utterly boring. Except for a person who utterly cared for his country and his people, and was in it for life. Being Emperor is not like being politician - you don't just quit with a super-sized pension after 8 years, you (usually) leave in a shirt without pockets.
As for peanut president, the less said, the better. There's also Operation Cyclone in neighbouring Afghanistan, of course...
Yes, that Op was another of those good ideas at the time, without considering the law of unintended consequences.
A gentleman I know, was an Air Force fighter pilot in the Iranian Air Force. When the Shah was deposed, he remained, he felt that it was his home, his country, and that they would still need an Air Force and competent officers. Little did he know about the soon to come purge of the IAF. He was sent to prison for eight years, and said never did a day go by that he wasn't beaten or tortured, and had all of his teeth knocked out. He was never supposed to leave that prison alive, it wasn't Evin, it was in the far north. One day the guards came for him, cleaned him up, and gave him new clothes, and he was taken to an office, where his release papers were waiting for his signature. He was suspicious, thinking it was a different method to try and get him to sign a confession, but what he saw was a release form for a woman that had his same last name. He looked at the prison official, and realized he was functionally illiterate, signed it, was released, and called his wife in Teheran and told her to get the kids and get out fast to Turkey. They met there, went to Germany first, then came to the U.S. to start a new life. Two summers ago he came to see me with a huge smile on his face, and presented me with his youngest son's certificate of passing the Texas BAR exam.
I have learned a great deal about life before and after the Mad Mullahs took power, and would love to see the day when the Iranian people could live in peace and freedom.
I've also become a much better backgammon player, over the last fifteen years.
No2liberals,
Thank you for the video, it is scary. But it corroborates my "image" of Iran. I still think this regime holds upon a lack of international security. If Iran is to became free of threats, I think that in ten, fifteen years, this Islamic regime will fall. But if you atack Iran, all the people will galvanise around this islamic regime.
Your assertions are correct but once you kill an innocent, the Persians will turn against you and, we all know that in the war, the innocents suffer the most. That's why usually people are compelled to pick a side.
"Afonso, I follow your logic of 'putting people at risk', and I think it's a mistake, fortunately."
I misunderstood the text and I am sorry. Now I see that the "mad mulahs" are the ones who are discussing what to do with it. It is indeed a mistake, but I would rather say unfortunately.
afonso
I agree that any attack on Iran will be a mistake.
The Mad Mullahs, as well as the President of Venezuela, Mini-Me, use the boogeyman threat of the U.S. attacking them, to bolster their hold on power.
One thing about Persians, that my Persian friends have told me is, they are mostly poets, not warriors, and that is why it is so difficult for them to organize effectively to fight the regime.
Henrik, let me ask you this:
Would the Shah have been overthrown if Carter had backed him rather than stab him in the back? If not, what do you think would have happened?
George, that's a very interesting hypothetical question, one that I'll not answer with a clear 'Yes' or 'No'...
First, I don't think Carter had the competence to provide any real support. He was running off a 'Cold war' model where the political prisoners would be fighting for democracy, not a dictatorship worse than the one that was already in place. Naivïté of the worst kind. Unfortunately, I *still* see the US government using this model, much to the detriment of states and stability.
Somehow, I think the train 'left the station' already in 1973, where we discredited the Shah for doing the obvious and reasonable thing, asking a decent price for the Iranian oil. If we had comprehended that we had a common goal to reach, he would have remained a genuine ally, not an US puppet, and we could have worked together on discrediting religion as a political factor. Just a dozen more years might have done the job, letting the old religious generation fall away completely.
But that would have taken the amazing skill of accepting his intentions as good already in 1973, before a clear challenge to his regime existed.
Purely hypothetical, of course. But identifying and doing the Right Thing in time usually saves us a lot of trouble later.
I think that about Iran we can not forget one item: Multiculturalism.
May it be internal, I heard that the traditional ethnic groups (Persians, Lurs, Medes, Bactrians and others) are now no more than 65%.
May it be external, the Persian people have always had a multiethnic empire and its imperial tendences shows. One can see how Amhadinejhad (or something like that) extends its influence trough Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, tomorrow Afghanistan, Tajikistan, who knows?
And we shall never forget that today there is an internal fight on Islam. Who will the muslim super power be? After the Ottomann felt, there are no clear leader. Amadinhejad thinks of himself as the 12th Iman or something isn't it? The one to erase Israel will be held dear in the muslims heart.
I have said, let the Persians do the job for themselves. They have a glorious past. Here we have a say:
The one who was already a King, never looses his Majesty.
No2liberals,
nice nick to start. Concearning the "Persians are poets, not warriors". Well, that is no excuse. Here goes a poem of a well known Portuguese fado:
A slingshot that throws, hope
A sparrow in shorts, astute
And the strenght of being, a child
Agains the strenght of a cop, who's tough
They look like gangs of freed, sparrows
The kids, the kids
They are like Indians (Native Americans), cpitains of the folk
The kids, the kinds
But when the sun sets, there goes the rage
They sit at the faher's lap
It's the kindness that returns
And hear them talking about the "New Man"
They are the children of this people
Learning to be Men!
This song was a fado and it is quite anti fascist. It was to fight the dictatorship back in the early 70s.
Sorry for all this cultural exchange thing.
Amadinhejad thinks of himself as the 12th Iman or something isn't it?
Actually, he doens't, and he makes that quite clear. He sees himself as the one paving the way for the 12th imam.
Others would consider the 12th imam to be Antichrist incarnate, but that's a matter of debate, of course.
I'm one of those who believe Mahdi = Antichrist
afonso
One of my favorite poems by the Persian poet, Saadi.
"All human beings are in truth akin
All in creation share one origin
When fate allots a member pangs and pains
No ease for other members then remains
If unperturbed, another's grief canst scan,
Thou are not worthy of the name of man."
I wasn't making an excuse for the passivity of the Persian people, in the face of their oppressors, just repeating an observation.
As for Ahmadamdingdong, and his desire to bring the Mahdi back, it is a nihilistic vision, by a very dangerous man. Or perhaps I should say, an apocalyptic vision.
There are a great many Iranian evangelicals in California, as well as in Europe. These are all people who came when the Shaw fell -- they are genuine Christians. It may be true that some are converting because they want an easy ticket to the West, but if that was the case,why are there Iranian Christian churches in Europe? The American Irnaian evangelicals also take care of getting Farsi Christian literature to their brothers in Iran. PS -- I've read the most popular underground church is the very American Pentacostal church, Assemblies of God, which was founded in Arkansas! Farsi and Arkie Pentecostals -- a very strange combination, but who cares? It's better than Islam. Here is a link to the Iranian Christian churches in Europe and America -- I suggest dropping them a few bucks (or euros or pounds) if you have one in your area.
http://www.iranianchurch.org/
Archonix -- please note, they list eight Iranian churches in the UK, including one in London.
I've been saying for quite some time that in my opinion Iran is ripe for conversion because of their history. Persia had, prior to their defeat by the Arabs and subsequent conversion to Islam, were very connected to Europe through constant contact with Greece. Islam is a stifling and oppressive 'religion' and they know it.
Much like Braveheart brought Scottish nationalism to the surface I think a movie about the pre-Islamic Persian culture can help Iran throw off the bonds of Islam.
And Afonso Islam is a weak religion because it can only maintain its strength through force. A really strong faith has enough confidence in itself to enter the competitive arena of ideas. Islam won't enter this arena because it knows it would lose. It must make at least some Iranians question their faith when they are told that if they leave the faith they will be killed. The freedom under Christianity stand sin stark contrast to the darkness of Islam. The material wealth and power of the Christian based West too stands casts a large shadow over the weakness of the Muslim world.
"Actually, he doens't, and he makes that quite clear. He sees himself as the one paving the way for the 12th imam."
Thank you Henrik for correcting me. We can see how "messihanic" the man is.
"One of my favorite poems by the Persian poet, Saadi."
Thank you for the Persian poem. Nice to see that many people here, if not the majority, does not devalue "muslim" culture just because it is muslim, in a pure "islamophobic" way of "everything muslim is bad". I say North African culture and Arabic culture has little or nothing of interest but, Lebanese, Persian, or the ancient Mesopotamia is/was quit thriving.
"I wasn't making an excuse for the passivity of the Persian people"
Historically speaking, the Persians have been warriors, and are use to being the "opressors" (or better, the dominants) rather than the opressed ones.
If it wasn't for the muslim faith... one would certain have a little Europe in the Middle East by the name of Persia.
"As for Ahmadamdingdong, and his desire to bring the Mahdi back, it is a nihilistic vision, by a very dangerous man. Or perhaps I should say, an apocalyptic vision."
Defenetely, more apocalyptic than nihilist. How could it be nihilistic? It is much more the opposite.
"Islam is a weak religion because it can only maintain its strength through force."
I do not agree at all. Islam is violent, it does not "maintain its strenght trough force". Yes, the convertion is violent, but, after three or four generations it is deep inside of the individuals, integrant part of their own beings. If not, just look to Egypt, (Persia is an exception) the Arabs, the Indonesians.
How were the 9/11 and the 7/7 bombers "obligated" or "forced" if not by faithh?
You can say what you want about Bin Laden but is undoubtedly a man of faith. I've said, Islam is very, very strong. You shall not substimate it.
Talking of Persian poetry, I used to come frequently to Neishapur, the town of Omar Khayyam, another Persian poet, astronomer and more. I've been to the monuments depicted in the Wikipedia page, and it's a pearl of beauty. Small one, but really nice.
Unrelated, I agree that Islam needs to appear strong, but is fragile underneath. Unless it can present itself as "the fastest growing religion on earth", it has a very real risk of imploding, for it is not attractive to be the leader of a stalled or dwindling religion. That aspect made it very nice to see the headline in a Danish newspaper recently that Buddha wins many more converts than Muhammad does.
If it wasn't for the birth advantage of Islamic nations, Islam would be bust already. Conversion is a very real threat to Islam - which is a key reason they attack us on freedom of expression. The Pope seeks to establish a church in Saudi Arabia, which may be key to understanding his, ehm, less than optimal statements on Islam lately.
Russian is selling Iran fighter jet, and pilots are in training currently. It is time to disable Iran's ability to make a nuclear bomb and to be able to fight back. Attacking Iran isn't about attacking the Iranian people, it is about rendering Iran's leadership helpless in their endeavours to destroy Israel and America and whomever else. This will put the Iranian people in a better position to take over the current regime.
Freedom comes at a cost; sooner or later Iranians are going to have to make the decision to do or die, or they'll just simply end up wishing they could have died for something they believed in: Freedom.
Russian is selling Iran fighter jet, and pilots are in training currently.
My father once met a British officer in the bar of the Hyatt Hotel in Mashad. Said officer was piss drunk.
He had just directed the delivery of a whopping 250 tanks to Iran, and had initiated the training, telling the Iranian drivers to proceed with caution towards the tank ditch and all the usual stuff when learning how to drive 60 ton monsters.
The drivers, however, thought that their new wonder-tanks were invincible, and drove full speed across all bumps and trenches. With the predictable result that in a mere three days, they had severely damaged half of the delivery, more than a hundred tanks!
I'm not all *that* worried about selling them a stack of weapons. Just boycott the spare part supply, and in a couple years they'll be reverting to slingshots.
Nukes, of course, is a different story completely.
While I am not a Christian I am pleased to see Christianity, even conservative biblical literalist strains carving support away from the religion of submission. I don't agree with the idea that this should be kept quiet. While it is partly a logical fallacy, people are more willing to be open to an idea if they know that others like them have accepted it. They also want to know that they are not alone in their rejection of Islam and they feel a little less fear because of it. It is not just fear of apostasy killing that keeps people in Islam but fear in general. Fear of Allah, fear of being cut off from your family and friends, even fear that your family and friends might suffer because of actions taken against you as an apostate. Islam is portrayed as an unstoppable inevitability and letting people know that it is not could be good medicine even if it provokes stricter measures by the state and by true believers.
I read about the secret spread of Christianity in Iran years ago in an isolate article which I sent to friends and which I find that I can't dig up right now. It seemed such a gleam of hope, and so uncorroborated. It was full of discussion of how it was happening and why. I wish I could remember it in any clear detail. Anyway, this is very hopeful news -- a million Christians in Iran. I doubt that non-religiousness alone can undermine the mullahs. Whatever combination of Christianity, secularism, etc., can undermine the hold of the mullahs, I'm for it.
Does anyone know if the missionaries in Iran are counseling converts as to how to survive in their environment? Would it be okay for people to convert secretly? I'm not a Christian and don't know what's required, but it seems to me that people shouldn't have to martyr themselves by disclosing something that will get them killed or imprisoned. That saying about discretion being the better part of valor applies here, IMO.
I don't know if you'll be able to access this link, but here's the text:
IRAN – On June 19, 2007, The Voice of the Martyrs confirmed reports that believers in Iran are being detained, interrogated and in one case, imprisoned because of their faith in Jesus Christ. According to VOM sources, this new wave of persecution is coming against Christians that meet to worship God in the privacy of their homes. VOM sources said, “We have confirmed reports that several believers have been interrogated and one house was stormed by an elite police team that confiscated a computer, several CDs and Christian materials. A Christian was arrested in this attack, and remains in prison.” Christians in Iran are concerned about these recent incidents. Pray believers in Iran will remain steadfast in their faith despite this new wave of persecution. Pray for the release of the believer in prison and for protection for all Christians in Iran. “Clearly, Iran’s government is alarmed at the growth of the Christian faith there,” said VOM spokesman Todd Nettleton. “This is a key time for the church in Iran. We call on Iran’s government to release this Christian believer who is being held, and we call on Christians around the world to pray for our brothers and sisters in Iran.”
The Christians in China would tell you that this persecution only spreads the gospel more quickly, liking throwing water on an oil fire.
The gates of hell won't prevail against the church, and I'm sure these believers are willing to die for their faith. There's no reason to be nominally Christian over there.
Muslims converting in great numbers? Perhaps the only hope for the survival of modern civilization. I linked to your articel from Mohammed invents a Toaster
Post a Comment
All comments are subject to pre-approval by blog admins.
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. For more information, click here.
Users are asked to limit each comment to about 500 words. If you need to say more, leave a link to your own blog.
Also: long or off-topic comments may be posted on news feed threads.
To add a link in a comment, use this format:
<a href="http://mywebsite.com">My Title</a>
Please do not paste long URLs!
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.