According to a reader who was at the demonstration in Brussels today, the organizers of the event announced that next manifestation of Stop Islamisation of Europe will be in Marseille on a date to be announced later.
When I find out more, I’ll let you know.
[no further post here]
At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe.
We are in a new phase of a very old war.
17 comments:
Marseille doesn't sound like a great idea to me. It's virtually a Muslim city as far as I know. Why not Istanbul? The Brussels demo became a success thanks to the contrast between brutality of the police and the peaceful demonstrators. The point couldn't have been proven in a much better way.
But if SIOE goes for Marseille next time, the reputation would become that they seek this kind of confrontations, that they want to have the demo banned. Marseille is a place where the authorities with some credibility could deny a demonstration out of security reasons, thanks to the dominance of Muslims there. My gut feeling is that Marseille would make SIOE lose initiative and credibility. But this whole thing is probably just a rumour.
Next time should be in Berlin, London or Paris or something like that. Not too far south since its been shown that it's Germanic people who mainly come. They should have it on a Saturday, so that more people will be able to travel and attend. Next time the point should be that the 20,000 people actually attend.
And for March, Madrid should be considered for commemorating the 3/11 train bombings.
A Scandinavian demo in Oslo, Copenhagen and Stockholm simultaneously could also be a good idea.
Thanks Baron, for great coverage of today's event.
marseilles? Holy crap, like conservative swede said, you might as well do an anti-islamization demo in medina. i got lost driving through marseilles, about 16 years ago, and found myself down near the centre of town. i stopped the car, innocently got out to look for someone to ask for directions, and asked myself how i had managed to cross the mediterranean in a citroen. bad bad bad idea. better to chose some part of the continent that might still be saved.
Marseille sounds like a good choice, if the point is to show that Islamisation is allready a big problem in Europe.
Saying that its like going to Istanbul or Medina, dosnt make sense, since those places are not in the target area.
Stop Islamisation in Europe. Means it should be a place in Europe.
About reputation; You two, might know that Marseilles is allready an Islamic bation, but does the average European know this ?
In Marseille, the police will be the least of your problems, and I suspect that's part of your point.
Taking back the streets won't be easy. Just as Martin Luther King's nonviolence was designed to spotlight the brutality of southern segregationists, your tactics appear to be designed to spotlight the brutality of both the politically correct left and the Islamists.
So long as members of your movement are prepared to become martyrs to the cause, Marseilles actually makes sense as a place for a demonstration. But be prepared for casualties. And martyrs. And funerals.
If you go to Marseilles, you are brave.
Maybe it's better to choose a symbolic day/place, because you can get more media attention and, in spite of their demonization of your protests, more people around Europe will find out about this: Madrid on 3/11 or London on 7/7. Also Paris, the city of the riots. I think that in Holland or Denmark you could gather more local demonstrators because they had the experiences with the cartoons and Theo van Gogh.
Regarding Masrseille - only if you are prepared to take the responsability for the dead. Even if considering the spread of Islam in Europe, no place is 100% sure...
Marseiile in Christmas seems good.
Marseilles sounds like a bad idea to me too. For one thing it would almost certainly be banned and we've just had that scenario. Secondly, Algerians (of which there are plenty in Marseilles) are not like the relatively docile and Europeanised Moroccans in Brussels, but have a well-deserved reputation for ultra-violence.
I'm more in favor of Amsterdam, London, Madrid or Copenhagen - especially the latter in recognition of Anders and the many brave Danes who came to Brussels.
I just hope the next one can be held on a weekend. Symbolic dates like 9/11 are important but I'm sure three times more people would have attended Brussels if it had been at the weekend.
Another essential thing is to build up numbers in our respective countries and try and get FIRM committments from groups and individuals who say they're coming.
The terrorists are inadvertently creating a calendar of commemorations -- and reasons for demonstrations.
The next event on the anti-Islamist calendar is the commemoration of the fifth anniversary of the Bali bombing on October 12.
After that is December 2, the anniversary of the murder of Theo Van Gogh.
March 11 (Madrid)
July 7 (London)
September 11 (New York & Washington)
October 12 (Bali)
December 2 (Amsterdam)
Feel free to add to this list of saints' days, days when there is excellent reason to protest against Muslim supremacists.
*Marseilles sounds like a bad idea to me too. For one thing it would almost certainly be banned and we've just had that scenario.*
And why would that be a bad thing ?. Do you believe that the Islamization of Europe will go away if we hold a Demonstration without demonstrating anything ?
The public needs to know what is happening to Europe. That's the most important thing right now.
It seems to me that we seeing a new class of people emerging - The blog nerds - people who forget that they are a small minority and that the knowledge they have is only held by a very few.
Do you believe that if we can hold a "good" demonstration, that daddy will come home and make everything alright ?
A demonstration is not a goal in it self.
The Goal is to stop the Islamification of our continent.
If you forever want SIOE to be connected to banned, illegal demonstrations, chaos and street war, demonstrators with shaved heads, funerals, etc, then Marseille is probably the optimal choice. Going to Marseille will require a whole different cadre of demonstrators, not the old men in suits and old grannies with Scandinavian flags. People would need to come in armour for street war.
SIOE is not associated with this now. Instead they won a lot of sympathy. But if they go to Marseille they show beyond any doubt that they actually seek this kind of confrontation, and they would lose all respect and sympathy, including mine. In my case not for causing violence but for being idiots.
SIOE has a great momentum now after Brussels. This is a capital that should be exploited, in the best possible way. The main point to prove now is that at least 10,000 ordinary people (old grannies and men in suits) show up for a legal and peaceful demonstration. This will help collapsing the image of us being right-wing extremists. Already Brussels help in this, but the next time people need to see that we come in tens of thousands.
Also, Istanbul is Europe. The principal difference between Istanbul and Marseille is not that big.
December 2 in Holland is not a bad idea. But it's better to have it on a Saturday so that many people can attend. This is much more important than finding a symbolic date at this point. I agree that Denmark and Holland are good ideas because that many local people will join.
As soon as a peaceful demonstration has been held, the more violently prone people who want to play "activist" in the streets of Marseille can do that. But if they do this first, the discourse will have jumped to another level, and the opportunity for people to see a peaceful demonstrations in the tens of thousands is already gone.
The people that would insist on going to Marseille next would be doing something that is a thousand times more damaging to our movement than what Ulf Uddekotte managed to achieve.
Not to mention that Marseilles is also Le Pen territory and an alliance with the Front National wouldn't exactly be helpful to SIOE's desire to project a moderate image.
Still, if some people want to go that route, no one's stopping them. Maybe Brigitte Bardot will join the march.
Conservative Swede
I have allways been a big fan of your postings and now you prove me right once again.
I know Istanbul is Europe. Thats why I wrote *Target Area*
I am glad you expandet on your first posting. I think you make some very important points. So thanks.
Ill make sure SIAD-SIOE takes this into consideration.
Phanarath,
I have always been a big fan of your postings and now you prove me right once again.
Thank you very much for your appreciation.
And congratulations for your way of spinning this as to see my comments as proving you right :-)
I am glad you expanded on your first posting. I think you make some very important points. So thanks.
I know that I can be obstinate, but this is only when there is a good and important purpose. And I struggle with issues and not with people (issues are represented by people, however, but that's not my target). Unfortunately, most people cannot take that though. Like the recent libertarianism fanatic here at GoV or e.g. Lawrence Auster. This is why I so highly appreciate people such as you or the Baron, who can take strong criticism, actually look at the substance of it, absorb it and adapt, or even change.
I'll make sure SIAD-SIOE takes this into consideration.
Wow, did I get someone with connections here. Good. Godspeed!
However, I just read about how SIAD has been denied the right demonstrate in Denmark time after time. A legal demonstration might not be so easy to get anywhere. But at this point it's the thing to search for stubbornly. Let's even be obstinate about it, and also search openly. Consider Prague for example!
Here is where I found it. It's a Danish blog. It says "Heller ikke i Danmark er demonstrationer imod islamisering tilladt. Foreningen SIAD får forbud imod at demonstrere, hver gang de ansøger.", Translation: "Neither in Denmark are demonstrations against Islamization allowed. SIAD is forbidden to demonstrate every time they apply."
Every time? Well, they demonstrated here: Demo in front of the Belgium embassy in Denmark. But maybe it's larger anti-Islamization demonstrations that get banned in Denmark? Above demonstration was a mini-demo as well as a meta-demo -- an tolerated because of that? Or was that one illegal too?
If this is the situation even in Denmark, then there won't be many places to find in Western Europe. Still somewhere there will be a politician, a mayor, who will support our ideas and allow the demonstration and use the police at our service.
My gut-feeling tells me that if indeed it would be impossible to have a legal large-scale demo even in Denmark, that Prague would then be the place to consider. It's central Europe in a way that serves us: it's right in the middle of Europe. Nevertheless, it's also Eastern Europe in a way that serves us. Eastern Europeans are more reliable when it comes to these things. E.g. the Czech politicians and police would not at all be as comfortable in acting as if their country was a communist regime. The Czech Republic was also one of the few countries documented presence at the Brussels demo in photos (a guy with Czech flag arrested), and they have the coolest and best president in Europe in Vaclav Klaus, next to Romania's Traian Basescu.
Speaking of documented presence: At least from the photos the country with the most number of of flags in Brussels was Sweden. This is the second time in this millennium that I feel national pride. There is still something good in this country. It's just buried under many layers of junk.
Conservative Swede I have just two things to say to you concerning any one of your suggestions
DO IT!
Stephen Gash,
Hard words have been exchanged. However, as I already mentioned in this thread, many good things were achieved by SIOE in this demo. You managed to attract the right kind of people for the demo, having the right kind of message. I consider the demo a big success, and I thank both you and Vlaams Belang for creating this success. Well done! You have done a really great effort in achieving something good for this planet.
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