The latest attempt to lay their necks on the cutting stone, comes from the movement to dethrone St. George. If the clergy has its way, St. George will be banished to mythology's rooms, where, with St. Christopher, he will come to rest.More in keeping with historical reality — though hardly a rallying cry for manly self-defense — is St. Alban, a Christian martyr from early 4th century Hertfordshire. St. Alban is famous for having his head cut off and for being dead before Mohammed was even dreamed of. Thus is he being touted as a replacement for the beloved image of St. George, the dragon slayer, the emblem of the Crusaders, and a bright red embarrasment for dhimmis in the UK.
The clerisy have trotted forth all their good reasons as to why St. George must go and St. Alban must take his place:
…the Church of England is considering rejecting England’s patron saint St George on the grounds that his image is too warlike and may offend Muslims.
Clergy have started a campaign to replace George with St Alban, a Christian martyr in Roman Britain.
The scheme, to be considered by the Church’s parliament, the General Synod, has met a cautious but sympathetic response from senior bishops.
[…]
The proposal has been put forward by the Rev Philip Chester, vicar of St Matthew’s, Westminster, who has called the use of St George as patron saint ‘dotty’.
His call for a change is based on the lack of firm historical evidence that George — said to be a Roman general from the 4th century AD who was put to death by Emperor Diocletian for professing Christianity — ever existed.
He said: ‘We are sure St Alban is a real figure. What’s more, he lived in this country.’
Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams indicated support for an upgrade for Alban, although he is said to be cautious about relegation for George.
He told the Sunday Times: ‘I think St Alban is irreplaceable in the history of English Christianity. Perhaps we ought to raise his profile because it’s the beginning of the church in this country with martyrdom, wisdom and courage.’
Well, at least we know how the Archbishop got to his present place of umm, eminence. It certainly wasn’t for emulating
The new fellow, Alban, has a yellow cross, laid diagonally on the flag’s blue field. Does “yellow” have the same connotation across the pond that it does in the US? One can only hope not. As for the concern that George's "image is too warlike and may offend Muslims..."? My heavens, we can't have that. Perhaps the red cross on its field of white could be saved for burials, say for the victims of
Meanwhile, back in present-day reality, these pronouncements about St. George’s flag are being widely and loudly ignored by some. As the increasingly marginalized Church prepares to abandon its centuries’ old warriors' flag, the new faith communities — professional sports — have picked up the pennant and are running the field with it. This, despite official refusal have St. George's cross fly from public buildings on what was formerly his feast day (April 23rd). But never mind. The establishment's disdain for St. George the dragon slayer is irrelevant. He lives on in popular culture, despite the frowning elitists’ attempts to ban him from public view:But it [the Church’s stand] clashes with the increasing popularity of the saint and his flag in England. The World Cup brought out millions of St George crosses as the symbol became increasingly mainstream and less frequently dismissed as a badge favoured only by far-Right political activists.
So you see, it’s like this: for some, there is still a sacred space, upon a green sward —
…And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’
— King Henry V, Act 3, Scene I
Hat tip: Enchiridion Militis
UPDATE: a fitting quote from Roncesvalles’ blog
At orphaned altars, demons dwell.
(Ernst Jünger)
23 comments:
I've heard that Anglican church attendance in the UK is at all time lows, that more people go to museums than church. I don't know if there's any readers who can vouch, or deny, that and set me straight. But the point is that "mainstream" churches have lost a lot of people, because they became what Jesus warned against in the Gospel - all practise without heart. Quibbling over which saint is the patron of England and not wondering how to keep the country from becoming part of the ummah - you ever hear the expression "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?"
While, at least in the U.S., other denominations, and evangelicals, are growing due to being unabashedly Christian. Other religions, Islam included, are gaining followers in Europe without watering down their tenets one iota. They are religions that still believe in themselves, while the established Christian churches go to irrelevancy while trying to step all over themselves to be all things to everyone. Pretty soon they'll be taking crosses off of steeples lest they offend someone. Then more people will think that going to church is a worthless exercise, and stay home and watch reruns with their scrambled eggs instead.
It's clearly obvious, the way people are at least curious, if not mystified and enthralled, by other faiths that there is the spirit in people, but Christianity lost its touch with people in Europe. Slouching its shoulders and apologizing for its existence isn't going to get people's respect back, let alone their interest in giving the Faith a listen to anymore. No other religion has such a self esteem issue in its homeland.
"…the Church of England is considering rejecting England’s patron saint St George on the grounds that his image is too warlike and may offend Muslims."
May offend Muslims? Insane!
@mts:
You're statement that "they'll be taking crosses off of steeples lest they offend someone" is quite apropos considering that some Muslim students in France (and who knows where else) refuse to use the '+' sign for addition because it looks like a cross. Sometimes I wonder if the Islamists will be able take over without even firing a shot … or should I say slicing off a head.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap while any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Will they take St Crispin out of Henry V's speech so as not to offend muslims? Maybe they could exchange it for Mohammed....but wait, isn't playacting haram? What to do, what to do (channeling idiot Angelican).......
If the clergy has its way
good tabloid story with little content. It is good that a few loons can get so much publicity as tabloids seek to fill up their pages with provocative stories or else make them up.
Just look on Aporil 23rd how many churches fly the Cross of St George........and just how many taxi-drivers - including Muslims - demanded the right to fly the pennant which is illegal on public vehicles for safety reasons - they tend to fly off at speeds above 40 mph.
I hae seen this story popping up a few times in recent weeks, though I haven't followed it closely, but there seems to be one very interesting point about it.
The moves to remove the "offensive" St. George seem to come entirely from the Church of England itself. There does not seem to be a lot of unhappiness with St. George in the Muslim community itself yet (though who knows how some of its less savoury leaders will spin the issue). In the Islamic middle east St. George, ironically, is held in high regard and there are actually Islamic shrines to him.
The true significance of the story is that a group of church leaders,without any great knowledge of the status of St. George in the middle east, have decided to try to remove him due to their feelings (not those of the Islamic community) that he might give offence.
These church leaders seem to spend a lot of their time looking for things to apologise for.
The anglican church is split over this (like so many issues) and it's probably fair to say that these views aren't held by most churches. I'm near the border of three parishes and there are 5 anglican churches (and one unitarian, natch) within half an hour of where I live. Three of the anglican churches fly the geroge cross regularly. The other two are selfish gits who are defacing thesmelves before pagans and muslims, and demanding that the church pay for it all. My old church was withholding it's tithe because of that.
Anyway, I think my point is that the anglican leadership have all got their heads in teh clouds, but the majority of the actual churches are probably alright. At least around here.
And, yes, church attenddance is at an all time low, officially. When the statistics are quioted it's usually a reference to anglican church-goers. There's a surprisingly large number of people going to non-denominational churches and house groups, that simply aren't counted when the statistics are put together.
When the statistics are quioted it's usually a reference to anglican church-goers.
on a Sunday and ignores weekday services. It also fails to show how Common Worship and ASB drove away BCP Anglicans or that the bulk of non-attendees who drifted away are men esp since women priests became fashionable
" Liberal clergy in Britain are preparing to turn to America's Anglican bishops for leadership in a move that could produce "civil war" and destroy the Church of England, The Sunday Telegraph has learned."
The story says:
The Rev Philip Chester, vicar of St Matthew's, Westminster, disclosed that they had met senior bishops in the American Church to explore ways of establishing a stronger network between liberal parishes. "Building closer ties with the American Church is the way forward," he said.
He is also part of the GLBT "Inclusive" Church so favoured by ECUSA
http://tinyurl.com/murvn
david is right -- there is affection for St George in the Middle East dating way back. I saw it in a Wikipedia article recently.
St. George is the patron saint of the Boy Scouts. Considering how they are treated in the US -- about like the military -- it's no wonder he's on the skids. The same wiki said he was considered historical so perhaps he was. Like St. Valentine, whom they tried to mythologize.
voyager--
I think you're right about women priests driving down membership. That's very non-PC, but in fact the return to orthodoxy in any denomination has large followings.
As for ECUSA and the British Anglicans banding together, they'll have to -- the rest of the Anglican church is going to go on without them.
St George is the Patron Saint of Moscow - the Third Rome.
On a recent tour of England, Scotland and Wales I was struck by all the closed churches, many with for sale signs tacked to their facades, that we saw. Our guide said that many of these closed/abandoned churches were now used as restaurants or venues for rock groups. When we got to London (this was two weeks before the first of the Tube bombings) I saw a number of such closed churches and was told, ironically, that some of these abandoned churches were now being used as welcome/social service/cultural centers for Muslim immigrants who had replaced the English inhabitants in the neighborhoods these churches used to serve.
Very cool graphic. (St. George) Can I use it?
". . .may offend Muslims. . ."
Is anyone else as bored as I am with whether Muslims are offended - at anything?
"...His call for a change is based on the lack of firm historical evidence that George — said to be a Roman general from the 4th century AD who was put to death by Emperor Diocletian for professing Christianity — ever existed..."
In view of the "lack of firm historical evidence" that Christ existed, perhaps the Church of England should change its object of worship to someone who undeniably existed...maybe Julius Caesar, Guy Fawkes or...didn't Mohammed undeniably exist?
ScottSA -- Use it, by all means! I borrowed the St. George portion from Enchiridion Militis anyway.
Iran Asks Germany - Fix the Zionists
A German government official said on Thursday that letter written by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to German Chancellor Angela Merkel asks her to help solve the Palestinian problem and deal with Zionism.
Regarding the "demoting" of saints:
The Catholic Church revised its calendar in 1969, as part of the church reforms. Many saints' feast days were removed from the worldwide calendar, but left for local celebration (optional feast). Among others, St. Christopher and St. Valentine were removed. This is wrongly thought to mean that they were removed from the list of saints. But you can see where that comes from - hey, they're not on the calendar anymore, they must have fallen out of favor, maybe aren't saints anymore. But like anything else, if you let something like a calendar be added to and not revised, you get a mess, so they revised it. Yoy.
Sorry, the geek in me came out. I'm ok now. I was away, but I'm back...
A German government official said on Thursday that letter written by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to German Chancellor Angela Merkel asks her to help solve the Palestinian problem and deal with Zionism
Yes according to Der Spiegel it is 10 pages of rambling incoherent diatribes against Israel and Jews and calling on Germany to work with Iran.
I think if I were Iranian I would be feeling very very embarrassed at having another numskull in charge, but this time one who is regarded as a dangerous buffoon by the world at large.
They have really reached the end of the track these mullahs - withoit oil they would have been long gone. Maybe if their oil pumping facilities were destroyed and China faced import controls in the EU and USA oil prices would collapse as demand wilted
England needs another Harry. It could probably get by with another Maggie.
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England is a more apt choice methinks
Thanks for quoting the Ernst-Jünger-quote from my blog.
Somebody posted another excellent quote there:
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything." GK Chesterton
Excellent coverage. I did a video on this subject, asking Brits to weigh in on the subject. The comments are still rolling in. Actually, the video is "Saints & Hunks" in which I also ask women to comment on what women find sexy in general in men (I'm usually perplexed over IBA Hunk of the Week). No input on women yet, but plenty of debate about St. George.
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England is a more apt choice methinks
Hardly. That man was probably as bad as some muslims despots. He hijacked the reform movement and turned it in to a war machine for his own benefit. He's hardly a fit role-model. The man banned christmas for god's sake!
Post a Comment
All comments are subject to pre-approval by blog admins.
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. For more information, click here.
Users are asked to limit each comment to about 500 words. If you need to say more, leave a link to your own blog.
Also: long or off-topic comments may be posted on news feed threads.
To add a link in a comment, use this format:
<a href="http://mywebsite.com">My Title</a>
Please do not paste long URLs!
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.